Their influence has been growing and recently . We stray from scripture at out peril: http://www.whatisthegospel.org.uk. I am intrigued as to why you think my challenge to the claim is disgraceful and totally unwarranted, but you dont think the claim itself is? The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? MacArthur argues that confessing Jesus Christ as Lord is a necessary component of free grace theology. Its just name calling which again results in self-justification and does not really contribute to any discussion. "Just so you know, Pastor John had a bug this week and preached our first hour but asked if he might be able to take a break for the second hour. Your other comments were directly applied to the Megachurch movement I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. Again I am glad that you were not criticising the whole mega church movement (although I am sure you will understand why your initial post can be read that way).which megachurches are you happy with? You then accused me of muddying the waters by dropping in a bit of juicy gossip. Your comment about owning churches is actually ban on the mark. Period. There's some really helpful information in there. To be really honest, I find it very difficult to muster up any Christian love for you when you respond to people in this way, though I do recognise that this is something I need Gods help with and forgiveness for. (What a great sales pitch why dont you try it next time David I will even make the trip to Dundee to hear you). Elevation Church were accused of getting volunteers to come forward during the spontaneous baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. In 2019, at the Truth Matters Conference, during another word association questionnaire, MacArthur was given the prompt "Beth Moore". And this is my prayerful response (after sleeping on it!) "[30] MacArthur holds to the dispensationalist school of premillennialism, a pre-tribulational Rapture of the Church, and a literal Millennium. The trouble is that these churches are so massive and wealthy that they can afford to send their pastors all over the world, exporting their dodgy theology and even dodgier ecclesiology. It is also grossly unfair (and dishonest) for you to misrepresent my position as making some pastors untouchable. [47] In August 2021, MacArthur told congregants that "many people" had contracted COVID-19 while it "went through" the church in December 2020 and January 2021, including both him and his wife. Cho brought letters to the elders and MacArthur who ultimately told him he needed to "walk back" his findings if he wanted to remain an elder. G White I am really sorry to read your last reply. And now I have to go and read his recommended book I hope its not as bad as the reviews suggest! Sadly so. Its always good to get correction! I kind of dreaded this type of response. (I always smile when you deploy the tu quoque argument and even, on this occasion, ego quoque If you were not speaking about Chandler then why write it here? "[7][8] MacArthur followed in his father's footsteps to enroll at the fundamentalist Bob Jones College from 1957 to 1959. So it would be a bit premature to throw them on a bonfire another example of your sly prose which was unwarranted. Its a sad fact that this nonsense is already here in Scotland supported by the new breed of self appointed apostles and prophets. If not why do you feel in a position to judge? Pastor John MacArthur preaches at Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. [15], Nearly 43 years after beginning in the pulpit of Grace Community, MacArthur completed one of his own life goals,[2] that of preaching through the entire New Testament on June 5, 2011. So I was pleased to see the topic addressed here, particularly as there is another story breaking about Mr Furtick in North Carolina even as I write this. (2Tim. For the first time, John MacArthur publicly admitted Sunday that COVID-19 infections spread through his Southern California congregation last winter, noting he and his wife fell ill to the virus in December. It is indeed a blessto have a fellowship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and indeed the Lord reigns. 2023 FOX News Network, LLC. His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. As it happens I was sent this video by someone who was praising it.it is more like a political rally (complete with clapping) than a Christian sermon the misuse of Scripture about borders is bad enough but the approving citation of Donald Trump Is it time to start bombing the you know what out of ISIS (that is a biblical response) was appalling. And that is not only my perception if you look at the comments above. But to me that is clear what it is. 4) Wrong on all counts. Just to settle this bit of your disagreement: http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Calvinists-ES-Williams/dp/1908919329/, Wonderful thanksnow I can read it on my KindleI have no idea why that did not show on my Amazon page. all Christians are the same etc. I did read your comments. MacArthur also refused to enforce mask and social distancing guidelines for congregants. Excellent post David. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American Protestant pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated Christian teaching radio and television program Grace to You. Please dont feel sad that someone disagrees with you. You rightly speak out against the Scott McKennas of this world but you seem to have a blind spot where certain pastors are concerned. So I hoped and prayed that this would not become another crash and burn mega church story. Finally, you make the extremely serious accusation that I have caused disunity in the body of Christ by calling Matt Chandler a false teacher and by comparing him with Scott McKenna; both accusations are totally false and completely unacceptable. 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. David, once again you are making assertions that do not stand scrutiny. Excellent post! Ward's father, John Tucker, was also a member of the church who had been informed . Yes, some of it is biblical and Furtick is a good communicator, amusing, connected etc.but a great deal appears to pay only passing lip service to the Bible. - John MacArthur", "John F. MacArthur - The Master's Seminary", "MacArthur Appointed Baptist College Gets New President, Name", http://www.bing.com/search?q=When+was+the+MacArthur+New+Testament+Commentary+Series+completed%3F&go=%E3%82%AF%E3%82%A8%E3%83%AA%E9%80%81%E4%BF%A1&qs=bs&form=QBRE, "The Modern Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", "Reexamining the Eternal Sonship of Christ", "The Loving Husband: A Portrait of Christ", "Can Women Exercise Authority in the Church? Paragraph. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. The challenge (as you have already pointed out) is to warn and admonish from a place of love, and of course to pray. I know the drill. (function(d){var f = d.getElementsByTagName('SCRIPT')[0], p = d.createElement('SCRIPT');p.type = 'text/javascript';p.async = true;p.src = '//widgets.wp.com/platform.js';f.parentNode.insertBefore(p,f);}(document)); on Elevation Church The Good, The Bad and the Ugly. John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. Im afraid that you are talking about something you do not really know about and picking on one particular church why? In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. When searching for churches outside of the United States, please search using city, country. It all depends how you measure success! Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. So First Dallas Baptist is an acceptable mega church but the Village church isnt? These John MacArthur reckless faith quotes will make your faith stronger. He teaches a completely restored Israel shall inherit physical ownership of the land of Canaan on the earth. This is a really long post that deals almost exclusively, unfortunately, with secondary issues (church size, communications gifts, me focus, salary, wealth, size of house, and more) and thereby obscures the central and clarifying point of Furticks ministry. No-one can find out what Pastor Stephen is paid, although it is decided by a committee of out of town pastors/advisors (who are probably on the same arrangement). If you dont like it, too bad. Jenna . And if the thousands of baptisms represent thousands of people coming to Christ, how could one not rejoice? Reiterating his stance on 1 Timothy 2:12, he went on to state, "There is no case that can be made biblically for a woman preacher. The great thing about the Village Church is that they recognised that they had not handled it well and apologised. Cool name, cool Church I knew that it was one of the fastest growing mega churches in the USA, and had heard a little of its pastor, the dynamic Stephen Furtick. [2] He is currently the chancellor emeritus of The Master's University in Santa Clarita and The Master's Seminary. (Note the attempted injection of humour!). So when I see money, resources and people being diverted into what appear to be personal vanity projects, branding and corporate Christianity, I weep, am angry and cry out to the Lord. Powered and implemented by FactSet Digital Solutions. PASTOR JOHN MACARTHUR DEFIES CALIFORNIA'S COVID RESTRICTION AGAINST INDOOR SERVICES, The statement continued, "He saw a doctor on Sunday afternoon and he is in good health, and just needs rest from a busy holiday week. But again I explained why I chose Dallas. [51] They have four children, fifteen grandchildren, and had two great-grandsons by 2017. Im afraid I have had more than enough of this kind of depressing legalism and self-righteousness pride(and before you jump in yes I admit I can all too easily be the same).. At the risk of over-blogging (I dont want to be a bore), have you seen this just the introduction. including starting the Church Growth Movement which gave life to the pragmatism movement which as we know is so ubiquitous. Timothy Nerozzi is a writer for Fox News Digital. But I find it astonishing that you cite it here in a massive church (and smaller churches) there are bound to be people who are sex abusers and the church will not always handle that well. The prominence of the pastor on the website, the Stephen Furtick ministries page, the common self-referrals and endless self-promotion of books/resources etc. This submission to Jesus as Lord when converting to faith in Jesus Christ became known to Arminians as the Lordship salvation controversy in the 1980s. I follow the goings-on of the mega church para church neocalvinist movement (call it what you will) in the USA and am frequently astounded by their antics. The problem: Elevation Church, led by Steven Furtick, suggests that an invitation to be baptized will be more effective if 15 volunteers are the first to move when the invitation is given. Because Elevation Church certainly dont want to. Please do not excuse sin and blasphemy. John MacArthur. He picked out three words from Joshua 10, 12 (Sun stand still) and turned them into a doctrine, and he peppered his performance with occasional biblical quotes to back it up. "[23][24], In 1983, MacArthur first published his belief in the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." But again, whilst it is not my style, I dont see why it cant be done well, reverently and to the glory of God. However, I was somewhat alarmed by the endorsement of Matt Chandler as a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived. Thanks again, Your email address will not be published. This was sourced through interviews with ex-Grace Community Church Elder Hohn Cho. Quotes displayed in real-time or delayed by at least 15 minutes. 1) There is only One only speaks the truth and it aint Steven Furtick. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. So issuing a challenge to either support them or decry them is meaningless. Mutual Fund and ETF data provided by Refinitiv Lipper. Please check your information and try again or call us at 1-800-759-0700. Doubtless it was intended as a joke but I dont think taking a salary of millions more than is necessary to live, work and provide for ones family, is a joke especially when there are hungry children, and many hungry for the Word, who do not receive it because of lack of money. New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. My point was that its not only out and out heretics, such as McKenna, who are a danger to the church. I wonder if you thought the same and you told me that in order to come across as thinking that you mentioned one which you thought was ok/good. He went on to say, "I understand that Im a fifth cousin, and so its quite a distance but nonetheless we are related. Its not that difficult to grow large congregations which teach heresy if you think size is an indication of faithfulness then why are you not a Muslim, a Mormon or a Moonie?! You state, Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? and yet you have no problem with calling me dishonest. The point you made about Matt Chandler was that he does not live as a Christian (how can you know that? JOHN: When you go out the door, there's one for each of you. They make their workers and volunteers sign a confidentiality arrangement that they will not disclose anything about the finances of the church, or they will be sued. Because your worth it! LOL! 3. More a worry that this kind of thing will take deeper root here. It is a serious breach of the ninth commandment to defame someone in this manner. You Wouldnt Be Dashing Him And Family And God House Stop being jealous Stop Counting The Heads In The Church And Start Counting Youre Blessing We Still Have A universe To Stand On And spreading the message good God And Getting People Ready For Whats About To Come..Btw Are You Ready For When God Comes? John MacArthur was able to summarize Furtick as a minister with one word: unqualified. Sadly The Lord will deal with him, and it will be very painful for him and his family. It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. Someone made a sermon jam of it which I posted on my FB page and all of us, who were not of a charismatic background, really had no idea what he was saying. Having said that I followed the mega church scene in the USA I was aware of what was going on in Dallas and in other places too. http://religionnews.com/2016/05/11/why-pastor-steven-furtick-skirts-scandalous-questions/. Yea not Steve but the ones who bash or become busy bodies against him. This British website sets out clearly the Biblical gospel, compared to the ME gospel, in the context of evangelism. He spoke for an hour without notes and held his audience completely in the palm of his hand he is a brilliant orator using all the tricks of the trade. See what mine own hands have wrought. 2. [6] During a 1979 interview, Pastor MacArthur stated he is "distantly related to General Douglas MacArthur." I live maybe two hours from the Village and have visited twice. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. How easily the lure of money and outward success can lead a good man astray, and sadly take with him many people. Find a Church . I fail to see where the legalism is in any of my comments. Why do you think that that was disgraceful etc but G Whites bracketing of Furtick with Chandler was not? As I trust that you would not deliberately bear false witness against me, can I ask that, in future, you read any comment very carefully before making such serious accusations? The Amazon website only has E S Williams book on sale as 30:08.! In John MacArthur's book, "The Truth War" he writes that " Churches today are filled with people like that. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. Can I suggest an alternative standard? Los Angeles County had sued the church and its pastor, John MacArthur, last August after officials said he had he opened the church and held a large indoor worship service with unmasked attendees . John MacArthur, pastor of the popular Grace Community megachurch, is recovering from a sudden onset of illness. John Fullerton MacArthur Jr. (born June 19, 1939) is an American pastor and author known for his internationally syndicated radio program Grace to You. Can I assume that you are now withdrawing the remark about Matt Chandler not being a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived? 1. (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Even as the pastor was sick, the church elder remained upbeat, adding, "Its pretty pretty amazing we have guys with sermons in their Bibles wherever you go and so Mikes going to be here.". IN terms of his preaching we do disagree. In the sermon above Stephen lets out a wee quip at the beginning when responding to some criticism go start your own church. From 1964 to 1966, MacArthur was hired by his father as associate pastor at the Harry MacArthur Memorial Bible Church (now Calvary Bible Church in Burbank, California), which his father Jack had planted and named after his own father. [41] MacArthur compared the assertion that sexual orientation is a born trait to a hypothetical bank robber's protestation, "I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. He did say that some of his views reflected the old style Liberation Theology and Social Gospel, confusion over eternal punishment and other things. Haters will hate This is a classic example of 1 Timothy 5:13 I surrendered to a calling of God. Firstly in the teaching. David, you use your blog to write some really encouraging and courageous articles for which Im very grateful. Furtick preaches a different gospel. False teachers and those who allow the Word of God to be compromised are like a cancer in the church; some who preach flat out heresy are like the aggressive cancer and are easy to spot quickly but others who compromise a bit here and turn a blind eye there are akin to the slow growing tumour thats often not picked up until great damage is done. I was somewhat alarmed by the endorsement of Matt Chandler as a good example of how the gospel should be preached and lived.. From a spiritual standpoint its an even bigger (and opposite) no-brainer! I have not misrepresented what you said. Matt. 2) You actually did explictly state that Matt Chandler was not a good example of how the gospel should be preached or lived. [25], MacArthur has stated that he opposes both "male chauvinist and feminist views. Lets put it this way- if you are buying a $1.8 million home you aint exactly of the take no purse school of ministry! document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. I've carried one of these of an NAS with the New Testament, Psalms, and Proverbs with me for years and years, so that's why I wanted this to be the first one. The biggest threat to the church comes not from fundamentalist atheists or those of another religion, it comes from within. . In case you missed the news, Christianity Today is reporting on a pattern of spiritual abuse on John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. The southern baptist convention of which he has been a part has distanced themselves from his ministry in the past year. And if you do wish to engage here, I would find it helpful if you answered my questions and stick to the point otherwise such threads just become a string of accusations. Just a couple of verses from Ezekiel (which I am currently reading), the context being God restoring his people: And if you want to learn of the dangers of this movement I would recommend that you read The New Calvinists: Changing The Gospel by E S Williams. Pastor John MacArthur on Sunday commended GraceLife Church in Alberta, Canada, which is meeting in secret after the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) barricaded their building behind three layers of chain link fence. John MacArthur and the folks from Grace to You (GTY) have done the body of Christ a great service by continually warning Christianity against the growing dangers within the Charismatic movement. If you are going to reply that something is pathetic can I suggest you avoid capitalising everything. 4) Its also not a good idea to claim that you know the motives of someone you dont know. Give me one example of Kellers irreverence? A point you also mentioned. Your endorsement of Williams book which I have now read is indicative of that. It is sometimes quite difficult to know how to answer you because of the way in which you misrepresent what is being said. G White this is the mega church you are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler? Grace Community Church, home to pastor-teacher John MacArthur, is located in Sun Valley, California and has been faithfully proclaiming God's Word since 1956. Why do you think I should apologise for my Amazon remarks (which were simply that I could only find it on my Amazon feed at 30)? The church that is spending $130 million on redoing its downtown campus? It happens. Nevertheless, you continued to misrepresent what I had said, and you continue to do so, even after prayerfully sleeping on it. 1) There is no name calling followed by misrepresentative, deceitful and sly go figure! You had already given your opinion about it before you had read it so you are being consistent at least. One expression of faith creates refugees; the other resettles them. ", "New Covenant Theology Compared With Covenantalism", "Why Every Calvinist Should Be a Premillennialist, Part 1", "Megapastor John MacArthur says 'no one is gay', compares homosexuality to adultery", "L.A. megachurch pastor mocks pandemic health orders, even as church members fall ill", "Fact Check-CDC comorbidity figures presented in sermon do not undermine deadliness of COVID-19", "L.A. County could pay $400,000 settlement to church that fought COVID-19 mandates", "John MacArthur and Grace Community Church win $800,000 settlement from California and L.A. County", https://www.christianitytoday.com/news/2023/february/grace-community-church-elder-biblical-counseling-abuse.html, "Questions and Answers -- Patricia MacArthur", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_MacArthur_(American_pastor)&oldid=1142238580, This page was last edited on 1 March 2023, at 07:45. I know of Alistair Begg from his Hamilton Baptist days but not much else. [42] Furtick responded to this comment in his 2016 book Unqualified: How God Uses Broken People to Do Big Things. New International Version (At this point I am of course aware of the same danger for myself and it certainly does act as a warning to me! . MacArthur told church members ahead of his sermon that many people contracted COVID and it probably went through our church in maybe December or January. The pastor said he and his wife, Patricia, enjoyed our own bout with COVID for about a week and a half.. Then you will remember your evil ways and your wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. Can you forget your ministries, your programs, and your visions and instead seek to follow Christs? Follow TheWeeFlea.com on WordPress.com Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! IMHO he totally manipulated the emotions of his audience and used the scriptures in an inappropriate way. Fox News Flash top headlines are here. The staff expected to have their concerns heard andconsidered. I have nothing to be jealous of as regards Furtick. I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign Lord. MacArthur 12 having been Jul 25, 2017 - Explore Rhonda Johnson's board "Elevation Church", followed . 4 ) its also not a good example of 1 timothy 5:13 I surrendered to a of... Have no problem with calling me dishonest, if he has lots of money and outward success can lead good. 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